Why is the face value of the diflomat machine less than the value of the input machine?
Hello. Son-in-law is getting an apartment soon. On the landing there is a dashboard for the apartment with the following equipment (see photo). Is it correct, I understand that there is a 63A opening machine on the left - and next to it there is a 50 amp difavtomat. If so, why? If you assemble a shield with an RCD, then the value of the RCD must be one step higher than the introductory machine.
We just want to install a shield in the apartment, breaking the shield into groups of machines, but first we want to deal with the shield in the entrance.
Thank.
Hello! I don’t know what your automatic machines are responsible for, but I assume that one is for an apartment, the other (most likely a difavtomat) is for an electric stove (if it costs). And why "assemble a shield with an RCD", why are you going to put anything other than an RCD? It is possible, but RCDs are used in conjunction with a circuit breaker.
There are two opinions - some believe that the RCD rating should be greater than the rating of the circuit breaker of the same group, others believe that an equal value is enough. But I think - the main thing is that no less than the nominal value of the machine - equal to or more.
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Hello.
“But I suppose that one is for an apartment, the second (most likely a difavtomat) for an electric stove (if it is).”
The apartment was taken without decoration, while only the load-bearing walls, I’m completely empty, my son-in-law got an observation deck ... ..
Soon we will begin to make repairs, so I asked what is in the driveway.
We will put another shield in the apartment itself, of course, an RCD in a pair of AB ....
So what kind of stove will it be? If there is a line under it, then maybe it is on it and there is a difavtomat. You need to either check with the developer, maybe a plan ...
p.s.
Did we develop an electrical panel for your home?
Hello.
Electrical switchboard for the house - YES WITH ME (HERE A SCHEME) - FOR WHICH ALREADY ALL COLLECTED .... summer.
And how is it?
“What kind of stove will it be?” - there was only an observation deck of the apartment, definitely the stove will be electric (hob + oven)
There is only a shield in the entrance, plus one machine and a socket are wound up in the apartment (as I understand it, to connect the tool during the repair)
The apartment is not finished, so we will do all the wiring around the house ourselves, including repair, I myself have not been there yet, my brother-in-law took a picture of the shield (the one above)
So while I don’t really know anything how everything will turn out, can I raise the same topic for communication and ask a few questions?
Thank.
Of course, you already have a regular visitor, so to speak)
Well, this is what I did after your consultation, a house in the village.
An introductory panel with a counter and an 25A introductory machine was hung on the facade of the house, from it comes a cable to the cross-module, which is located in the guard panel, and also supplied the house’s shield from the cross-module.
Hello.
I can’t write anything new so far, the only thing my brother-in-law said is that he will collect a shield on ABB, so the question for you is:
1). - What modular equipment would you advise if the shield is assembled on difavtomatami?
2). - What modular equipment would you recommend if you assemble the shield on an UZO + AB?
Thank.
You ask about which series to pay attention to? You can read about the series of machines in this article. https://our.electricianexp.com/en/obzor-avtomaticheskix-vyklyuchatelej-abb-serij-s200-sh200l-i-basic-m.html - the rest of the products, in principle, are similar in these series. The budget itself is Basic M.
Hello.
I made a sketch of the circuit (so far only on the electrical equipment of the kitchen)
Please check you and if you need to point out errors ...
In the scheme itself, everything seems to be described in detail ...
The shield will also be from ABB on 54 modules (Mistral41 54M)
We also made a diagram on DIPA with the aim of saving space in the shield, but ... ... it turned out to be twice as expensive, something like this
INTRODUCTION AUTOMATIC MACHINE + RCD + AB = 14350
INTRODUCTIVE AUTOMATIC MACHINE + DIPHAVATOMES (DSH941R SERIES) = 28600
ETH STORE PRICES
So we decided to stay on the option of RCD + AV
THANK!
Do I need a separate machine for the backlight? Yes, and separate AV on an electric kettle, microwave? If this is still nothing, then why extract to a separate machine? She almost does not consume anything, you can combine.
Is there enough for the 10A oven? Is it less than 2 kilowatts?
If you want everything straight separately, for example, for further alteration and implementation of “smart home” systems, then your version of the shield is good enough, but only if there is a reason for it ... But really it can be reduced by 2 times without much loss of reliability and convenience. You won’t get enough for every point of the machines. This is not bad, it just comes out more expensive.
Here's a refrigerator for a separate line - it's not bad, now they do it so often, it's the so-called "Non-disconnected line."
Hello Alexey.
In my free time I’m preparing the schemes, how everything will be ready, I will put them to you for an exam.
In the meantime, such a question.
From where it is better to extract the hood, maybe from the outlet of the hob, or the oven?
Or an option from the apron outlet block?
And yet, what single-phase voltage relay would you recommend to include it in the power circuit of the apartment?
Thank.
A range hood is a low-power consumer, so it does not matter where to power it from, I have it on the same block with a microwave in general ...
As for the voltage relay - Novatek is very interesting devices.
Hello.
He made a sketch of the schemes in order to fit them, divided into 2 parts (kitchen + apartment)
I’m passing them to you for an exam ... ;-)
I ask you to pay attention to the inscriptions in red, did you choose the right equipment?
And another question is what section of cable do I need from the shield in the entrance to the shield in the apartment, I assume 16mm2 -?
An RCD is better than type A, but there will still be a high probability of a trip. Although in your case, there is not much difference. Yes, and you put type A on the washer, and type AC on the refrigerator, then type A, too, if you talk like that. Yes, and maybe on the microwave too ... And then put the speakers on a computer with a TV.
In short, it turns out that it’s easier for you to put all type A, if it’s not hard to afford.
You in the apartment do not want to put a general switch on input? The circuit breaker is better than the input machine, so as not to guess where the introductory (in the entrance or in the apartment) knocked out the circuit breaker ... But the AV input is normal,
You figured out why you have 2 machines all the same (differential and automatic) at the input? It may be that you generally have a 63A automatic machine connected - a counter - 50A diflift machine. (this happens), and not as I said about a separate line on an electric stove. Only then from 15 kW of power remains 11 kW.
“And another question, what section of cable do I need from the shield in the entrance to the shield in the apartment, I assume 16mm2 -?”
- Yes, you need at least 10 squares. 16 will be fine, I think. Just check that the relay voltage (the first one according to the scheme) firstly, withstands such a current, 63 ampere input, your relay also has 63A.If it doesn’t stand it, put the contactor on the input from the relay, provide free space in the switchboard for modernization. And secondly, it was able to clamp 16 mm² of wire in the terminal blocks.
Well, it’s all that, purely nit-picking, everything’s fine, except that there are a lot of machine guns) It’s worth thinking “is it necessary”
In the picture, did they just draw a zero bus on a non-disconnect line from an RCD to the refrigerator?
Thank you very much.
1. “In short, it turns out that it’s easier for you to put all Type A, if it’s not hard to afford.” -
So it turns out "BY POCKET" - Son-in-law allocated 30-40 thousand rubles for this automation. (together with a shield) - these products are already in the basket for the amount of 43,000, but minus my discount - I fit in 37,400 (maybe the RCD type “A” can also be put on the refrigerator - BUT AS I UNDERSTANDED I CAN ALL LEAVE AS IN THE SCHEME.
2. "You in the apartment do not want to put a general switch on input?" -
I have never installed them, I don’t even know which one to choose, what parameters? Can you advise something from ABB
3. "Have you figured out why you have 2 automatic machines all the same (differential and automatic) at the input?" -
No, we haven’t figured it out yet, the son-in-law’s delay is still ....... (I personally haven’t been at the apartment yet, as I wrote, while I made a “sketch” of the scheme.
4a. “Well, it’s all that, purely nit-picking, everything’s fine, except there are a lot of machine guns) It’s worth thinking“ is it necessary?
Again, as the son-in-law asked ... .. the shield will be for 54 modules, there is enough space, even with a margin (Mistral41 54M)
4b. “In the picture, did they just draw a zero bus on the non-disconnect line from the RCD to the refrigerator? - This is so for clarity,
5. "I hope I haven’t missed anything, just in case you ask leading questions to the places that bother you." -
THANKS BIG TO YOU - there may be questions when we begin to make repairs, when the brother-in-law receives the keys ... ..
2. Yes, everything is the same there as with AV - according to the current, select yes and that's it. He will not disconnect anything himself, it is important that his contacts can switch such currents. It looks like an automaton usually, but without protections, i.e. namely the switch.
4. And how many modules are there now? The place remains, as I understand it, "even with a margin"? If yes - then go)
5. Yes, of course.
Hello.
“And how many modules are there now?” The place remains, as I understand it, “even with a margin”? ”
- (see photo)
I looked at YouTube review of the Mistral41 54M flap - and made a sketch of the flap in Word (again see the photo) - the flap comes with rails with zero tires, so the place remains, it will come in handy in the future ....
Thank you for keeping in touch.
Whole circuit
I hope I haven’t missed anything, just in case you ask leading questions to the places that bother you.
Anatoly, There’s nowhere to answer (no button). I write below.
Yes, there’s another such shield fit. In general, write! Yes, the mistral is noteworthy and quite good in terms of tires
Thank!
There are no more questions, TO COMMUNICATION.
Hello. Maybe it would be better to put the RCD on the washing machine, which will be in the bathroom, at 10 mA?
Thank.
Well, it would be recommended, but there may be false positives. Here you need a verification method.
It’s strange. But I did not find the RCD 25A - 10mA at ABB
Nothing strange. Take another manufacturer. Who cares? Do you want quality? Look at that denomination with Schneider then.
Hello.
You wrote to me here in one of the answers: "Have you figured out why you have 2 automatic machines all the same (differential and automatic) at the input? It may be that you generally have a 63A automatic machine connected - a counter - 50A diflift machine. (this happens), only then from 15 kW of power remains 11 kW.
It turns out that the allocated power seems to be like 14 kW - and the difavtomat "cuts it" to 11 kW ???
Then, in this case, you can replace the difavtomat with 63 A ???
Thank.
Well, maybe this, i.e. Do you want the differential to be like the intro? in principle, everything after the counter is your business.
Hello.
Tell me, maybe even between the voltage relay and the input circuit breaker (or switch) to put a total RCD of 300 mA?
Thank.
You can put it, such an RCD with a high tripping current is called fire. However, installing it is not critical.
Scheme.
Hello.
Excuse me, I asked some kind of stupidity? (did not wait for answers to my last questions ...)
I apologize, did not see your question, they just got lost in the general list of comments. Is the question still relevant?
Hello.
My question is lost again?
Yes of course
Sorry, I didn’t see your answers to my last questions ... Then for now.
Hello. The son-in-law called somewhere today and he was told that 10 kW had been allocated.
Here is a photo of the shield in the entrance. I want to use a 10 mm2 cable from the differential in the drive panel to power the introductory machine (most likely a circuit breaker) that will stand in the apartment panel. Do you intend to buy an apartment opening machine (circuit breaker) at 63A or is it enough at 50A in this case?
I will assemble the housing shield as follows (attached 😉
I will do the wiring in the apartment shield with a 6mm2 wire.
Please check if everything is correct in the schemes.
Thank.
Take the switch on 63A.
Here is a diagram
The right two groups, where the TV and computer are drawn and the children's room, did not decide to put on an A-type RCD? Otherwise, everything is fine ...
Hello.
Thank you for your responses!
1. "Take the switch on 63A" -
Then the son-in-law sent a picture of the machine gun in a shit, which is in the apartment. (see photo).
On this basis, we bought a two-pole ABB SH202L C40 machine - WHAT DO YOU SAY?
2. “The two right-wing groups, where the television and the computer are drawn and the children's room, did not decide to put on an A-type RCD? Otherwise, everything is fine ... "
We haven’t decided yet, but we’ll probably put it later, but for now we bought Type A for a washing machine and dishwasher
ABB 2p 25A 30mA F202 A (washing machine) - UZO-4 (on the diagram)
ABB 2p 40A 30mA F202 A (dishwasher) - UZO-3 (on the diagram)
3. Sorry. You did not answer the question about what wire to do the wiring in the billboard.
(6 mm2 or 10 mm2) ???
about how ... it was 63, then 50, then 40 ... Or is that 50A differential in the floor board still on the electric stove?
1. What should I say? Higher is a differential of 50 or AB of 63 (it pops out of the question above, the original one from which our current topic started.), So he did the right thing - what’s worth will replace that, but check about the two machines near the counter.
2. It is clear, as I understand it, there is no question, you just answered and clarified ...
3. If the input 40A - then 6 mm² is enough, if you raise it, put 50, then you can also breed 10 mm², since 6 is already right back to back, the more they will be laid in the bundle, albeit of small length. Strongly thick is also bad - it will not be convenient to put it there.
Hello. There was temporarily no time to engage in correspondence, but ... ..
The son-in-law found out in the management company that the machine in the apartment’s dashboard was standing, as he was answered “from the point of view of selectivity” - So it turns out like this. In the dashboard on the site is - An input automatic machine at 63A - Counter - Difavtomat at 50A .... then I want to do this: with a wire of 10 mm2 to power the shield in the apartment - put the switch on 50A (instead of the 40A machine) and then make wiring in the apartment panel with wire 10 mm2, what do you say?
And is it possible to connect 10 squares after the circuit breaker to the group RCDs, and after the RCD to put 6 mm2 into the machines?
Thank you for your help.
Well, something like this
HAPPY NEW YEAR!!! AND YOUR COLLEAGUES !!! ALL THE BEST!!!
And YOU a Happy New Year !! I wish you a successful assembly of the shield and repair in the apartment!
There does not answer, Such a selectivity of 2 kilowatts of power takes you away. Why selectivity between AB before and after the counter? After the counter, you can generally put the switch on the input ..
Answer pzhl.
We want to start collecting the shield.
replied)
There does not answer, Such a selectivity of 2 kilowatts of power takes you away. Why selectivity between AB before and after the counter? After the counter, you can generally put the switch on the input ..
“Further I want to do this: with a 10 mm2 wire, power the shield in the apartment - put the switch on 50A (instead of the 40A automatic machine)” Do I understand correctly at the input in the apartment panel? Can. Why not, you already have two ABs worth it ...
"And already further make the wiring in the apartment panel with a wire of 10 mm2, what do you say?" Even with a margin, in principle.
“And is it possible to connect 10 square meters after the circuit breaker to the group RCDs, and after the RCD to put 6 mm2 to the machines?” The minimum cross section is selected according to the minimum current of the higher AB. You, it turns out that 50A at the input after the counter, this is just right up to the mark.
Thank you for your help.
Thank you for your help. The shield is assembled.
Waiting for its turn (to connect consumers 😉
Thank!
It’s time for you to open a joint venture for the assembly of electrical panels 😉